Wood Talk Online #32

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General

Marc is going to finish enclosing an outdoor patio and turn it in to a dedicated finishing room. What types of features would you want to have in this type of room? A utility sink, specialized lighting, or something else? Let us know what you think.

Marc and Matt discuss Marc’s experiences with the Earlex HVLP system.

Lazy people food (shop tools and materials): What else could you add to this list?
Peanut butter and jelly pre-mixed in a jar
Center-finding rulers
Pre-made calls
Chamfering jig for block plane
Magnetic saw guide
Solid wood edging
Card scraper holder
Pre-made winding sticks

Lighting in the shop. What’s the ideal lighting for finishing (or in Marc and Matt’s case, even filming) in the shop? Marc and Matt also talk about photographing your work. With a semi-modern digital camera and the right lighting, you can get great pictures for sending to magazines or creating a portfolio. Marc just bought a lightbox from Steve Kaeser.

Voicemails / Emails

Dave – East St. Louis
Marc, I understand you take commission on pieces and you probably accept credit cards. I was looking at PayPal, but I’m not too thrilled about it. For smaller shops, have you experienced anything or can you point me in a direction?

Jason – New Brunswick, Canada
Saw a magazine the other day that had a beautiful picture of a set of built-ins in a craftsman style where the drawers had through-tenons. Everything was white oak except the drawer faces were basswood, but the tenons that came through were black. I don’t imagine they used ebony, but I don’t know if they used some kind of dye combination. I just can’t figure out how to achieve that look cause I think it looks great. Can you guys comment on how you could achieve that in terms of gluing it up and finishing it? I’d really like to give it a shot.

19 replies on “Wood Talk Online #32”

Wonderful episode, Marc and Matt! And thanks for plugging my web site and blog.

Just a few comments and/or suggestions about the finishing room – I use waterborne finishes exclusively:

1. The little table in my “booth” IS a turntable. It is absolutely essential, as it allows you to keep the work piece between you and the exhaust system. I bought it at an auction for about $2.

2. My exhaust fan is a tubeaxial fan, 2,200 CFM. It basically changes out the total air volume in the finishing room once per minute. Although I don’t use solvent-based finishes, I felt explosion-proof was essential – never any doubt about what might have caused a problem.

3. Pretty smart of you to consider keeping the turbine away from the fumes. Mine stays behind me, within the room, but in the far-left corner. Always wise, to prevent overspray from getting into the turbine itself.

4. You are right on target about the overspray drying quickly: My system does not show ANY overspray on the fan blade – it all gets trapped in the filter I have in front of the exhaust system. THAT is how fast the waterborne materials dry when sprayed.

5. Raking lights: You can see what I have in the finishing room, in some of the photos that come up at the links below.

In case you have not seen my poor man’s “spray booth”, I invite you to visit http://sandal-woodsblog.com/2007/09/19/details-of-the-spray-booth-by-popular-demand-2/ and http://sandal-woodsblog.com/2007/09/19/69/ .

Thanks again for the plug, and for the wonderful episode!

Al

I heard you say turbine in conjunction with water base finishes you intend to do. This link and others in the knowledgebase of woodweb discuss experiences of other professionals with switching to water base. http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Switching_to_WaterBorne_Finishes.html The link works…cut and paste.

Some recommended, in another thread, not using turbines to spray water base because the turbine heated the air too much. They recommended using a hvlp type compressed air gun with its own regulator.

I wanted to use a water base topcoat and couldn’t develop a scheme to produce the warm colors you get using oil base urethane. I gave up so far. Do you have a method of developing the warm oil base color by using water base products?

You included the Veritas Scraper Holder as a Lazy People Tool. It is on my wish list as is the Veritas cabinet scraper because I have arthritis in my thumbs and holding a card scraper while bending it is painful. I’m hoping one of these will assist me in minimizing the use of sandpaper….just haven’t decided which one I want. If you have any suggestions I’m all ears.

Marc, i would make sure that i had exposion proof motors no matter the 100 % water based. at some point someone will use something other than water based. probably nothing would ever happen but you don’t want to take the chance. i do not know how much painting it takes but i have heard of spray cans of paint will ignite and explode. any way doesn’t cost much more to be safe. over head hooks that slide possibly from one side to another or end to end. where you can paint an item then move it to dry.
Dean

As always, enjoyed the show.

You talked about fluorescent lamps and what would work best for a finishing booth or in your woodshop. Although color is a personal preference hopefully the information below will help those who may be confused with what K ratings are.

The color rendering (K) scale is 3000K to 6500K . In general the higher the color rendering the better the eye will be able to distinguish between similar colors. 3000K is a soft white, 4100k is a cool white, 5000k is a natural sunshine, and 6500k is daylight.

Although 5000K is not the highest color rendering its often associated as having the best ability to show colors accurately. At the electrical distributor where I work, lamps with 5000K color rendering are the most popular for just about any high end job we sell. 5000K is acceptable for Galleries, Museums, Jewelry stores, etc. and would be a great choice for a finishing room.

Hope this is informative. You can also visit any of the Lamp manufactureres websites to find out more.

Richard, you’re absolutely right about the card scraper holder. I can see how this would benefit your situation. I do have the Veritas version, and it’s worked great for me.
The thumbscrew is a little small so it get’s tight to turn as you dial in the flex, but it works no doubt.

Also if anyone is interested, I had a chance to see the chamfering jig from Veritas in action this weekend. I still will continue to do mine freehand, but it was fun to play with!

1.the ultimate, drum roll lazy people tool “THE PLASTIC PUSH STICK”

2.I was thinking about my future spay booth set up and in the less that perfect world a spay room/photo studio with a roll down back drop so the room could double as a photo room to shoot my work.

3.Dyed through tenons , I just made a table and then decided to make a matching bench, and I used different methods on both

A. the table, I assembled the legs with the tenons thru the top and sanded the top and tenons at the same time then I disassembled the piece dyed the top black water based aniline dye and shellacked the tenons on the leg and reassembled the unit.
b. the bench, the second time I did it a little different. I assembled the piece first I sanded the top and tenons smooth, then masked off the tenons and shellac them, then I masked the tenons and dyed the the top black with water based aniline dye
it worked. the shellac being alcohol based and the dye being water based for the top made the difference I taped the tenons to be on the save side.
graziano

When looking for lighting for the finishing room, look for the CRI# (Color Rendering Index ) You will find it on the box the lamp comes in. The higher the CRI# the closer the rendering is to Daylight=100.

If you are replacing lamps in your shop, I recommend replacing the ALL at the same time with the same type. As the lamp ages the Color Temp and CRI change. Old ones will look Old next to new ones. Your shots look real good. You may just need more light. Look into “High-Bay” or “High-Output” florescent lights. If I remember, your shop ceiling is over 15′?

For the finishing room there are special High-CRI laps that are mounted on a “snake-lite” pedestal that would relay help at seeing where that last coat of varnish is a little thiner or thicker. We use one like this ( http://www.naturallighting.com/web/shop.php?crn=586&rn=2367&action=show_detail ) to make compare colors where I work. I would put one in my finishing room if it had walls:)

Hey Mark,

If you get a chance go to a automotive body shop and ask to see thier spray booth. The lighting form them is probably the most extreme situation i can think of.

They normally have them at a 45 degree angle…… on the wall

in the corner where the wall meets the ceiling…like really large crown molding… this gives you raking light and at the same time diminishes the change of a large shadow effect from your body…..

Just an idea………

Oh Just to throw this is…

PVC is ok for shop air…. have had it many shops no issues ……EVER….. and I have beat it up….

You guys are great thank you….

Matt & Marc,
Great show, hmm lazy people food,
Marc : Lazer light on a Miter Saw (why ?).
Matt : A plastic hand block sandpaper holder (Look in the drawer you find its red).

In regards to Episode #32, the comment on “Lazy People Food/Tools”: Marc mentioned Winding-Sticks as one.

I’m currious why that would be on that list?

I understand that in the old-days an apprentice had to learn to make them, but he would first have had access to a good shop, tools, and a Master-Craftsmen so he could learn to make an accurate set.

If woodworking is a persons’ hobby, they don’t have any of those resources starting-out so, tools like straight-edges, squares, etc that are very accurate seem like a necessity!

Since Handplanes have such a learning-curve in setup and use, I can see an even bigger reason to have the most accurate straight-edges and winding-sticks to confirm your efforts.

Is there something I’m missing?

if you’re burning your fingers on a scraper put a thin fridge magnet strip on it. This draws out the heat. Thank Luthier Robert O’Brien for this tip.

there are a number of old episodes that are unplayable thanks to servers being down in NYC. The recent hurricane really caused some issues for Blip.tv, where some of these older episodes are hosted. So it is only temporary, but you are likely to find a few more.

I’m only partly lazy. Made a bunch of my own cauls but purchased some metal winding sticks. Just found you recently. Great show.

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